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Lining change to improve Kinsgway junction
by Lib Dem Team on 23 September, 2016
A change to the lines on the Gatley approach to the Kingsway junction should improve traffic flow a little.
“We are calling for major improvements to the junction, such as an underpass, to deal with the extra traffic from the thousands of houses Cheshire East are proposing to build,” said Cllr Iain Roberts. “But in the meantime we’re always on the lookout for any way to improve the junction, even if it’s just small.”
“We spotted that traffic from Gatley wanting to turn left often can’t get into the filter lane. As it passes Torkington Road, Gatley Road is too narrow for three lanes because of the hatching in the middle. But if the central hatching is started further down, that problem is reduced. It isn’t going to fix all the problems, but it’s one small improvement and in some situations it will help.”
The changes just involve repainting lines and don’t need a legal process, so we’re hoping the work will be done in the next few weeks.
46 Comments
A little bit of progress is welcomed. However, the problem highlighted is caused by the back-up from traffic wanting to turn right. And that won’t be sorted until there’s a right filter in both directions (the obvious solution but one that was never modelled in the recentish exercise – they only modelled the effects of having only one direction with a filter)
Unfortunately the right-filter in both directions option was rejected because it didn’t meet the safety standards. We asked for more work to be done on modelling it, and that would have been done in the study that was meant to happen over the summer of 2015 but then got cancelled when Mark Hunter was voted out and no longer pressing for it.
Iain – the suggestion that right filter in both directions is less safe than the present free-for-all is just plain silly. I know that is the advice that’s been given – but it was never modelled – perhaps because it is obviously a plain silly suggestion.
I regularly cycle across that junction and I absolutely hate it. One of the problems is that if you are a cyclist going straight on at that junction, you have to effectively cycle across the path of left turning cars In order to get into the cycle lane. I feel unsafe. Maybe a cycle lane starting further back where the lanes separate would get us all into position earlier? Got to be said, I hate cycling the other direction towards Gatley too. It’s a tricky junction and feels unsafe.
Helen, You’re using your bike on the wrong road, you need to cycle in Warren Avenue as the Council made that a priority for cyclists, and unfortunately people like yourself are failing to make full use of it
Do cyclists pay road tax?
Nobody pays road tax, we pay vehicle excise duty (VED), although some cars are exempt, and various other taxes that all go to one big pot for the Government to then share amongst the various services.
Furthermore as I, like many cyclist. do pay VED as I also have a car.
Halifax – I’m not sure how you would use Warren Avenue as an alternative to the Kinsgway junction.
The two alternative routes are via the South Park Road Estate and Foxland Road/Broadway. Both are a bit slower though.
Robert – nearly all do, yes (not all cyclists pay road tax and not all motorists do either).
Per bike? I’ve never been asked to tax mine. We have three cars and a classic in the family – 4 lots of tax
You mean four lots of vehicle excise duty
Robert – most cyclists are also drivers, so pay tax for their cars. Not all cars are taxed. However, VED is not a tax to use the roads, nor is VED spent on maintaining the roads. It’s just another Government tax that goes into the big Treasury pot and gets used for NHS, pensions etc. etc.
I know. So, why not tax cyclists to contribute to the cost of special lanes and other draconian measures that make vehicle journey times much longer? Also, if cyclists were registered and taxed, maybe they would be more considerate? I’d pay to tax my bike for the few times a year I use it ……
Based on your logic, perhaps pedestrians should be registered and tax as they have special lanes (pavements) and other draconian measures (light controlled crossing) that make vehicle journey times much longer.
Perhaps you would rather I use my car to commute, as adding more cars to the road, wouldn’t increase journey times
Robert – cyclists pay tax like everyone else and that tax goes towards roads as well as other spending.
Mr Cohen,
If you do not wish to pay vehicle excise duty ( it is not road tax) then get an electric car you will find that as with many other exemptions there is no charge.
.
I travel from Cheadle towards Gatley virtually everyday and always have to turn right onto Kingsway.Im sure that regular user of this junction know that on busy times, which is nearly always,only 3 cars on average turn right and all on a red light when then approaching traffic coming from Gatley has had to stop for the lights.
If the lights were staggered each way, even for just 7 or seconds, I’m sure it would ease the queue of traffic.
Hi Tom – that’s the problem we’ve always hit. A right filter would help cars turning right (of course!) but all the modelling they’ve done suggests that even a short right filter would lead to much longer queues on the A34 and possibly for traffic going straight ahead on Gatley Road too.
We would need to get both TfGM and Highways England to agree to a right filter and they’ve made clear that they won’t do that, so we’re looking for other options to make it work better.
Of course, Cheshire East’s plans to build thousands more houses around Handforth are going to make it even worse!
Iain
If you take the right filter time out of the east/west route (the obviously sensible way to proceed), then there is no impact on the A34 traffic.
In the last modelling exercise, one model had a right turn from Cheadle and another model had a right turn from Gatley (both taking time off the east/west route). Both showed an unsurprising improvement for the right-turners. What was never modelled was to have both turning at the same time – it is just commonsense that you would have the same benefits for each direction. There is, as mentioned in another post, no need for it to be more than a few seconds for the filter to allow a big improvement.
Hi John,
Taking time out of the East/West movement was looked at and seems not to be the fix we might have thought. If you take the time from East/West you get longer queues of cars waiting to go straight on. Those queues then block the cars looking to get into the right-hand filter lane.
As I mentioned, the reason given for not modelling having both right-turns concurrently was that the junction is too small to run than movement safely. However, we did ask them to model it and – had the work we were promised gone ahead in Summer 2015 – it should have included that modelling.
A right filter would be and is the obvious solution, other than a more obvious underpass.
I note that in one of the comments above that it is considered unsafe, how more unsafe is it to be turning right into a no mans land where oncoming traffic can’t be seen.
The picture you paint is very bleak. The A34 is currently extremely busy, but when more houses are built it will become a car park and polluting one as well.
I have lived in Cheadle for over 20 years and this issue was being debated then, and I will guess it will still be an issue in 20 years time.
In those 20 years, whilst wringing their hands in anguish, are local Councillors have approved massive housing building schemes that have made the problem worse, and will continue to do so.
In the 20 years I have been here, the Council have added a few white lines, re-jigged the lights and added a filter lane from Gatley.
None of which address the problem – they are trying to fit a quart into a pint glass.
That’s exactly the problem we have. Under governments of all colours, more housebuilding has happened and has continued to happen. We can’t pretend that councillors can just “say no” – that’s not how the system works.
So we need to come up with a plan to deal with the increased traffic and that’s what we’re working on.
You have had 20 years (at least) to come up with a plan
And we (and others) have come up with many plans.
Having a plan isn’t the problem. Getting someone to pay for the plans has always been the problem.
OK, I’ll re-phrase , you’ve had 20 years to come up with a workable plan
This problem doesn’t have a solution (not all problems do), and we are kidding ourselves if we think it has. We have to learn to live with it.
The “Keep Clear” boxes for traffic coming out of Torkington, Delamere and Springfield roads are usually ignored by traffic travelling from Gatley Village towards Kingsway. This makes it difficult for drivers to exit those roads – and causes tailbacks up all three.
Is there any way of making the instructions more “forceful”?
Hi Harry – we’re not aware of any option that would work much better, I’m afraid. We’re open to suggestions!
What’s to stop the areas being turned into “Yellow boxes” like crossroad junctions?
When we’ve asked in the past, transport officers have told us that the Government rules on yellow boxes say that they are not to be installed in that situation (see the chapter at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223667/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf)
Final thought: –
Some sort of “Give Way” marking as well as “Keep Clear” perhaps?
We keep talking about improving the traffic flows on Kingsway in both directions and traffic flows out of Gatley, what about traffic traveling out of Cheadle. What is needed is a traffic camera to catch red light jumpers travelling out of Gatley and for the traffic light sequence to be reduced for traffic leaving Gatley thus giving a chance for vehicles leaving Cheadle. At the moment when the lights change in favour of Gatley Road traffic leaving Gatley has a filter lane left turn only advantage which on average means 10 to 12 vehicles leaving Gatley pass through the lights before traffic leaving Cheadle gets a green light. Please give us in Cheadle Some Thought
When will someone attempt to do something stop the U turns both in the entrance to Torkington Road & also on Gatley Road.
We have quite often have enough problems with motorists ignoring the keep clear signs in Gatley Road when trying to turn right.
This is added to by selfish motorists who complete a dangerous manoeuvre by doing a U turn in Torkington Road which both blocks our view as well as the entrance to Torkington Road
Agree about the U-turn issue. The Council has put up bollards and a no u-turn sign for Torkington. As it’s a moving traffic offence, only the Police can enforce it as the law stands but it would be good to improve the situation.
Halifax – agree. So we have plans but not the money to implement them. No-one at all, to my knowledge, has come up with a cheap plan that fixes the problem and doesn’t cause more problems.
Sometimes there are problems without easy answers.
As I stated earlier, you have been discussing this for 20 years, and will no doubt be discussing it for the next 20 years.
And in the meantime, whilst wringing your hands in anguish, continue to approve massive housing building and road building schemes that make the problem worse, and them blame someone else.
I have heard it for 20 years
You’ve heard it for 20 years and yet still you seem to have no ideas on what to do about it.
We, on the other hand, understand the challenges and are implementing a plan. We’re working on a plan B as backup.
You’ve also not explained what you think councillors should do about housing, given that rejecting viable developments just means they get pushed through anyway but with less local input.
So come on, if we’ve got it so wrong, set out your plan for what the councillors should be doing and explain how it can be put into practice.
I think it is quite clear what my idea are/have been.
Stop approving house building schemes that put more pressure on this junction.
I know you blame this government for ‘forcing’ you to build houses. Well you’ve been approving these schemes for years, and what exactly have you done to campaign against them? And what did our LIbDem MP do to campaign against them?
Halifax – let’s simply look at what the outcome of your idea would be: developers would be able to build pretty much wherever they wanted without restriction. Is that what you want for our area? It isn’t what we want.
If there is an impact on Kingsway by helping drivers/cyclists escape from Cheadle so be it. Doesn’t anyone take any notice of the amount of traffic using Cheadle as an alternative to the various routes around it? The village is chocked all day every day! Why is it so important that Gatley traffic gets out and not Cheadle we work, go to school etc too…….
Hi – both Gatley and Cheadle are equally important. Whenever we see the opportunity to make an improvement to traffic on either side, we take it.
So far only improvements seem to be one sided as far as can be seen from Cheadle. Extra traffic lights along high street don’t help you get out of the village and a cycle route that just avoids one set does what ?
I wonder why there is so much time given to north-south traffic flow at that junction. Aren’t we in Cheadle and Gatley of equal importance? Probably planners would say that it is necessary to keep north-south traffic flowing to avoid backups in Manchester centre on the feeds from the M60. I would dispute that – surely drivers on the A34 can accept an extra 20 seconds wait?
Kellet is absolutely right. All the extra pedestrian lights on Cheadle High Street have only increased the blockage of the village with traffic being snarled up constantly.
John – we now have a camera at the junction which allows TfGM to monitor it and change the signal timings to optimise traffic flow. We need to monitor that. They try to avoid traffic backing onto the motorway for safety reasons. Unfortunately, even a small reduction in the north/south time can lead to much longer queues.