What’s the Lib Dem plan for the Kingsway junction

by Lib Dem team on 16 April, 2018

People have asked me for some more detail on the Lib Dem approach to tackling the Kingsway junction. It’s a good question.

Anyone asking for your vote should be able to say not just that they want to fix it, but also what they’ve already done and what they plan to do.

We’ve made five improvements to the junction over the last few years:

  • left-hand filter lane from Gatley
  • widening slip road off the M60 and flip-flop lights at the slip road junction with the A34
  • moving the lines forward for right-turning vehicles in both directions so an extra car can fit onto the junction and turn right.
  • changing the lanes on the northbound approach to better balance traffic across the three lanes
  • a CCTV camera overlooking the junction (you can see it on the south west corner). That’s monitored by TfGM in Manchester and they can change the light sequences in real-time to sort out problems.

The experts tell us that those changes have – so far – stopped the junction getting worse as traffic has increased. The traffic going through the junction has grown by about 20% over the last decade, and while the queues are just as bad as they used to be, they aren’t worse. It’s also made the junction safer – especially the approach from the motorway.

So what next?

I always say to people that there are two solutions: more road or less traffic. We could create more roadspace with an underpass or some other similar solution. Or we could reduce traffic by giving people better routes (e.g. allowing people to get onto the M60 anti-clockwise at Roscoe’s roundabout) or by improving public transport links.

None of this is going to be cheap, whichever solution we go with. It won’t be money that the council has available, so it will need Government funding. That means competing against other schemes for limited cash. Any fix is going to have a price tag in the tens of millions.

Stockport Council is currently undertaking a refresh of the SEMMMS (South East Manchester Multi-Modal Study) which will come up with a list of transport improvements. I have been pushing for the junction to be a key priority in that study and I’ll continue to do so.

We also have an opportunity for funding from new homes. Cheshire East has already approved building several thousand more homes around Handforth Dean and Wilmslow. Stockport is looking at more building around Woodford, Heald Green and Cheadle Hulme. We have said that any new homes must come with funding to help us sort out the junction.

Right filter

One of the improvements we’ve long been looking at is a proper right-filter from Cheadle and Gatley.  TfGM and Highways England did a study about 3 years ago looking at the options and found that even a short right-filter on the traffic lights made the queues much longer in other directions. TfGM control the junction and Highways England have a key input because it’s close to the motorway, so while they disagree with the idea, it won’t happen.

The study back in 2015 (which was done at the request of Mark Hunter when he was our MP) missed one element: it didn’t model having right filters from Gatley and Cheadle both working at the same time. We were told the reason was safety – the junction is just too small to have that configuration – but we’d still like that to be looked at again.

 

   20 Comments

20 Responses

  1. John says:

    I suggested a right-turn filter in both directions crossing the A34 several years ago, but the reaction was the same: it would hold up traffic on the A34. Consequently, traffic on the Gatley-Cheadle road is held up instead! As for the CCTV monitoring the junction, I have yet to see any temporary changes when queues of traffic exist all the way back from the junction to the Horse and Farrier in Gatley! Perhaps the people responsible for monitoring the CCTV were having their tea!
    Also, some years ago, I drew a plan showing a possible roundabout and underpass (for the A34) at that junction and posted the image on Gatley Facebook. Self-styled ‘experts’ assured me that it would not work/fit or whatever other reason. Now it appears to be considered once more!
    Lots of talking, not much doing!

  2. Iain Roberts says:

    Hi John – I think in the reality the CCTV is used more when the queues get too long on the A34 and back onto the motorway, but I’ve not sat in the control room so I couldn’t say for sure!

    I’ve not seen your drawing, and I’ve never stopped considering the different options for the junction.

    Hopefully you’ll agree that we’ve been making the practical improvements we can to the junction while doing everything we can to move towards the big, multi-million investment we’re going to need to really sort it out.

    • John says:

      Ian, re. my design for a roundabout and underpass at the junction in question, I’d be happy to provide a copy but I don’t think it is possible to do that on here.
      John

  3. John Hartley says:

    Iain

    You are correct that the “missing model” in 2015 was the twin right turn filters. When they modelled, separately, right turns for Cheadle & Gatley, it confirmed benefits for the traffic turning or going straight on, without any issue for the north/south traffic. However, it did mean a small build-up for the east/west traffic from the other direction.

    It stands to reason that, if you had both directions able to filter at the same time, the benefits would be to both directions. As the filter time would come the east/west time, there is no disadvantage to the north/south traffic.

    It is, frankly, a nonsense for them to suggest that it would not be safe to have two filters working at the same time. What we have now is both directions turning at the same time – only without the added safety of a filter light.

    • Rizwan says:

      John I completely agree.
      Not only is it completely feasible for both sets to traffic to turn right at the same time, it is also possible for Cheadle traffic to turn right while Gatley traffic turns left (with sensible driving into a 3 lane road) although of course that only partially works as the left turn initially kicks in when A34 turns right.

      The U-turn is also not dangerous with sensible driving when it is same to do.

      It’s utterly ridiculous to have to drive to Roscoe to get onto M60 and now get stuck in that gridlock trying to get onto M56 when I live in spitting distance of the M60 sliproad off the A34.
      And once Barnes becomes active it will only get worse

  4. Bruce says:

    Iain – you conveniently do not mention all the extra traffic that will be created by the Barnes development that your party authorised.(Incidentally why is it taking so long to implement the changes to the entrance – and I have mentioned on many occasions that are some serious safely issues with the layout).

    As I see it the only really feasible solution to the A34/Gatley Road junction is to implement right turn filters. Talk of underpasses and fly-overs are never going to happen. Building an underpass would affect many homes around the junction and cost a fortune. A flyover would be even worse..

    As Iain states the main problem is just too much traffic and it will be very interesting to see how the new airport link affects the area = if it ever gets completed!

  5. David Johnson says:

    Thousands more homes to the south approved – not just at the deterioration of those localities but adding significant traffic particularly towards Manchester on the A34 and other ways through housing areas such as St. Ann’s road. This is not planning but just profiteering at the cost to existing communities!

  6. Pat Whitwam says:

    Please stop claiming credit for everything that happens: ‘We’ve made five improvements…..’ should read, TfGM have made the following….

    Re: The Junction: A camera would be a help to stop traffic using the left hand filter from Gatley onto the A34 by running the red light as it changes thus stopping the traffic queuing in the centre of the junction trying to turn right being delayed and reducing the number in the queue waiting to turn right at every sequence. It happens many times a day and is infuriating as well as obviously a traffic offence. Here’s a suggestion – check the CCTV…

    As for Barnes traffic, it just doesn’t bear thinking about – they are already (illegally) using the South Park Road estate underpass for access to the northbound A34 and more and more houses are still being built I really do not know what the Council’s plans could be but please God it isn’t another set of traffic lights North & Southbound at the exit from Barnes Hospital There would be queues almost back to Burnage & Heald Green in the rush hours. Here’s an idea: how about an exit onto the M60/M56 slip road from the estate????!!!!

    There’s one thing you could claim credit for – the ensuing chaos and the number of severe potholes along the South Park estate in particular the slip road along the northbound A34. Lorries, coaches and other heavy goods use that underpass and slip road frequently and then struggle to make the sharp left turn onto the A34 adding to the chaos, often dripping diesel while they queue.

  7. Ian says:

    The issue of turning right onto the A34 From Cheadle is an issue so many motorists choose to travel through the lights towards Gatley and do a U-turn to avoid Queuing. Clearly, this is dangerous and a traffic Violation yet there is no camera to pick this up. For once I would support a camera there picking up and prosecuting offenders and at the same time, one at the end of Massie Street should be introduced for those ignoring the no right turn sign.

    • Bruce says:

      Ian – it is not illegal to do a u-turn unless a sign indicates otherwise.

      • Lucas says:

        Bruce – there is a no U-turn sign there.

        There are also three on Kingsway southbound at the lights, but clearly that isn’t enough for some drivers to spot.

        • Iain Roberts says:

          It was one of the changes the Lib Dems made a few years back – the no-u-turn sign and the bollards around Torkington Road. As always with these things, it doesn’t work 100% – especially as the Police don’t have the resources to do much enforcement these days!

  8. Heather Stuart says:

    I have lived on Silverdale Road for 20 years, it runs parallel with the A34 it used to be a quiet road but now is just used as cut through because the A34 is a car park. It can take me 5 mins sometimes to get off the drive, I dread to think what it will be like when all the new houses are built.

  9. David Maycock says:

    only one answer and should have been done years ago. Flyover from where kings way school is up on legs to bridge where Barnes was. A34 traffic could carry on then no stopping this is what they do abroad but they look forward and anticipate which we don’t and over ride local objections so it gets done. Here are two examples nothing to do with roads. Minute mobile phones come out, total ban should have come in on use in Cars, Lorrys ect. As now its commmon place to use one while driving along. Next one this is new, Dog walkers people who use them are putting there dog back in the pack mode, and in the back of dark vans with what i have seen. So mark my words it wont be long before some child, grown up or older person is savaged. Why do i say this i volunteer in Wythenshawe Park and 3 weeks ago when going in to Mere Wood i was surrounded by 5 barking and jumping dogs with the usual ” it’s alright love they won’t bite you ” to which i replied you should have them under control. And being a retired postman of 24yrs i shown her my arm where a chunk was taken out and that was a dog on a lead ! So as i say i am just waiting to see but some where in this country its going to happen. Lastly i thought the idea of a dog was to get you out.

  10. Lois Evans says:

    Here’s a suggestion – stop talking about Kinsway Junction and do something NOW

  11. Andrew says:

    Hi Iain

    Clearly the double right turn filter is an obvious choice for implementation and as a previous comment stated, we already have both Cheadle and Gatley traffic turning right without the safety of a filter.

    Regarding the previous modelling and the concern of a build up of traffic onto the M60, I’ve never seen a satisfactory answer to the following question: if a short 10 second right-hand filter was implemented for traffic from Cheadle/Gatley onto the A34, why can’t the light sequence be extended by 10 seconds for the north/south A34 traffic flow? Wouldn’t this have minimal impact on the M60 slip road?

    Thank you for your efforts over the years, I appreciate that solutions are limited and costly however I also share the frustrations of everyone who has to endure this junction on a regular basis.

    • Iain Roberts says:

      Hi Andy, we’ve looked at taking time off the North/South flow, even to the extent that I stood with TfGM staff by the slip road as they changed the timing to slightly shorten the time given to A34 traffic by just a couple of seconds. The queues backing up along the A34 got longer very quickly with less than 10 secs and we had to put the lights back.

      It is frustrating – and we’re all users of the junction too, of course.

      • Andrew says:

        Thanks Iain but I was actually asking the opposite: why can’t we just EXTEND time for the north/south A34 flow by the amount of time the right-turn filter is on. Therefore the net time impact on the A34 north/south flow would be zero.

        • Iain Roberts says:

          Hi Andrew,

          I think what happens then is you get more time for right turn and you get more time for north/south movements. All that time has to come from somewhere, so the time for cars going east/west or turning left from Cheadle or Gatley would be greatly reduced.

          We did look at this general approach and found that not only would you get much longer queues back into Gatley and Cheadle, but those queues would also stop cars getting into the right-turn lane to take advantage of the right filter.

          Iain

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