Graham reports back from Friends of Scholes Park meeting
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Graham reports back from Friends of Scholes Park meeting
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Lib Dems support People’s Vote for Brexit
by Lib Dem team on 21 August, 2018
The Lib Dem team are supporting a campaign for a People’s Vote on the final deal.
If you believe that the people deserve a democratic vote on the final Brexit deal, you can sign the petition here.
“None of us knew the details of Brexit in 2016, because those details didn’t exist. As a democrat, I believe that people should have the opportunity to vote on the final deal, when it emerges.” said Cllr Iain Roberts. “The same government that is pushing Brexit through without a vote admits that it will make us poorer.”
31 Comments
We have already a demacratic vote on brexit to leave…….we DO NOT need another one. Get over it …..we are leaving.
It’s impossible to ignore the disaster that will be Brexit unless you are completely naive and taken in by the likes of Jacob and Boris and Nigel. All part of a super rich elite determined to drag us all back to their preferred version of feudalism.
A totally undemocratic process funded by a few super rich ideologues, backed up by an astonishingly biased Press.
A people’s vote is exactly what is needed – and at least the Lib Dems have been totally consistent about this.
I’m fed up with the lobby that cannot accept a democratic vote. Vote and vote again until you get the result you want is not the way.
Spot on, Clare.
Whilst it would be insulting to suggest that everyone who voted to leave was an extremist over the issue, certainly many of the Leave campaign leaders are. I look at the other policies which they support to see what they are really about. One group yearns for a weird nostalgia for Britain in the 1950s – a time still of Empire; a time when there were few dark faces here. And the other group – the “super rich elite”, as Clare describes them – looks to turn the UK into a low regulation off-shore tax haven where workers have few rights and envirnomental protection is minimal (I have read the speeches of now disgraced ex-cabinet minister and brextremist Pritti Patel on the subject). These are very disturbing times in which we live – but not as disturbing as if these extremists get their way.
Clare – I thought we did have a democratic vote a couple of years back.
If there were to be another vote and you lost that one would you then demand a confirmation vote something along the lines ‘are you really sure you want to leave’.
After the referendum Iain said the country has voted let us get on with. LibDems believe in democracy along as it reflects their opinion.
Bruce – I think that, once again, you are forgetting history. I also think you avoid these issues deliberately, because the facts don’t suit your stance. What you are conveniently forgetting is that 2016 was the second vote on the issue. Did the Brextremists respect the decision of the 1975 referendum? No, of course, they didnt. They carried on with their campaiging, with the help of their cronies in the rightwing press which carried almost daily anti-foreigner stories for 40 years until they managed to get their way in. And, as for carrying on campaigning, you’ll know as well as I do that Farage said that, had Remain won by a small margin, it would be “unfinished business”. You’ll remember that on the other thread, I gave you the link to this but, unsurprisingly, you failed to comment on such an imprtant statement, preferring to mention traffic problems caused by the Barnes Hospital development. What a sorry way to treat a serious issue – you really could do better.
John – my referral to Barnes was to provide an example of how Iain practices his propaganda by blaming the Tories for everything whilst he conveniently forgets the problems that Barnes will cause.
As for the EU that was 40 years ago and I would definitely support another referendum around 2056 – not that I will be voting in it ! (unless of course I discover the elixir of youth or a time machine)
And John – please don’t patronise me.
Certainly not an attempt to patronise you or anyone else, Bruce. But my remark was intended to be critical of your reply to me on that other thread. It trivialised the discussion and warranted, (and still warrants) criticism, not least because your reply addressed absolutely none of the issues I’d raised. Your decision of course to reply how you wish – but every decision has its consequences.
But, assuming your reference about the Lib Dems may have intended to suggest that I am a Lib Dem (and should therefore be tarred with the same brush), then let me correct you. I am not a Lib Dem and havent been for a number of years – the leap to the right under Clegg’s leadership did for me and the final straw was when the Lib Dems went into coalition with your lot. I am a supporter of the Green Party which, if you followed my suggestion, on that thread, to look at the “Another Europe is Possible” group, you will see the Greens support it. And, for absolute clarity – at the last general election, I would have voted Green but they did not stand a candidate so, yes, I did vote Lib Dem but that was, primarily, in supprt of Mark Hunter who, on two occasions has given me and my life companion direct assistance with government departments.
I believe it’s a backwards step to leave, and I’ll support anything that keeps us in Europe, irrespective of the party involved.
We had a vote on this but there are serious issues around leave campaign financing, the role of social media etc. We are much more enlightened about ‘what leaves means’ now and what our relationship will be with the USA etc.
I agree, we have had a democratic vote so just accept it. I would be much happier if you addressed local issues preferably in Cheadle, of which there are many.
Thanks Moira – as you know we spend most of our time addressing the local issues. Brexit will affect every single households though. We will be poorer, lose jobs and our country will be weaker. It’s a local issue as well as a national one.
Iain – don’t forget the plague of locusts and fifth horseman of the apocalypse Brexit – to accompany War, Pestilence, Famine and Death.
Iain – don’t forget the plague of locusts and fifth horseman of the apocalypse Brexit – to accompany War, Pestilence, Famine and Death.
No need to invent things Bruce – the outcomes of Brexit predicted by the Government’s own studies are quite bad enough.
Iain – whatever the outcome – another referendum- no deal – good deal – bad deal – no Brexit, one thing is for sure – things ain’t gonna be the same. The country is really polarised on the issue and it will be years before we settle down to any normality – whatever that is nowadays.
The referendum came about because of UKIP – or perhaps more accurately Farage – and Labour’s failure to select David Milliband, a much more personable politician, as leader. Had he been selected instead of ED, the Tories would not have won the election – the country just did not want Ed Milliband as PM. Consequently there would have been no referendum.
The EU needs to change but turkeys don’t vote for Xmas.
The EU has been changing massively and will continue to do so. Whether that will ever be reported by the UK press is another matter!
Yes I have signed the petition and also contributed to the open Britain campaign and I strongly urge anyone who wants a prosperous future to do the same.
Otherwise the next 10 to 15 years will be harsh with the Brexit bunch blaming the eu for not negotiating ‘properly ‘ as if somehow they should help us extricate ourselselves grom this mess. They will not do this and why should they.
What’s needed is Labour to join with the lib dems , if this can be achieved reversing this idiocy becomes quite likely.
CORBYN and CABLE selling used cars O.K.
Running a country NO THANKS.
John H – the biggest threat to this country is not Brexit – it is Corbyn.
Frederick – unfortunately, I see no sign of Labour significantly shifting its position, even though polls clearly indicate a majority of its voters and party members are pro-EU. The problem, as such, is that Corbyn has always been anti-EU – seeing it as a capitalist conspiracy – and, if nothing else, he is a man of principle and seems to me most unlikely to change his position over this. I suppose much may rest on any outcomes at the forthcoming Labour Party conference. Corbyn has long campaigned for more membership control of the Party so would perhaps find himself in a quandry if the Conference came out with a clear position in support of the so-called “people’s vote” on the final deal. That could happen as several trade unions, including mine (UNISON), are pro-EU, seeing it as beneficial for job and workers rights.
I’m not holding my breath, though.
I respect the democratic vote in 2016. I also respect the right of the people in a democracy to change their minds, and to have another democratic vote on the final deal, once we know the facts.
It’s funny how people talk about democracy. Europe – by which I refer to the EU – most certainly isn’t! I’m still a remainer and voted so. However, this “I want and will stamp my feet until I get my own way” is not helping the situation we are in. Realistically it isn’t Mrs May (or any other politician) who is for or against a hard or a soft Brexit. It is up to the undemocratic EU to decide. If they give us a hard time it means that other major players such as Holland and France who also have leanings to leave will be discouraged. I’m not so convinced we will actually get what the brexiteers want. But time will tell. In the meantime, we should get behind the government and be as one for the best deal. If anyone can tell me what the current clowns running so called Labour are now for it would be interesting to know.
Well said Moira!
We had the referendum in 2016 when the nation’s decision to leave was taken and I think our national politicians should collaborate to implement it in the best way possible.
Meanwhile our local councilors should spend their time dealing with local issues – not trying to stir up trouble.
we have had one vote – we don’t need another- just get on with it – and don’t give in to the EU- and don’t give them another huge slice of British cash.
(Sigh) of course we need another one- the first one was a fabrication of lies by vested interests and pathetic little englanders lie people on here who somehow think we will be free to do what we want. If you read th Torygraph of even the worse, the Mail, you’re absolutely screwed in your thinking as all they do is peddle the same old Brexit lies. It’s significant (if you managed to read it) that most of the areas which voted Leave, would now vote Remain as they have now woken up to the truth. We’re screwed if we leave the EU
lets just get out stuff the consequences, should never have gone in, we never liked half of what they did. European country’s have moved forward a lot better than we have anyway. Minority ruling the majority here now.
Democracy allows individuals to assess a situation and vote according to their assessment of the situation. Whether they also support a particular political party in general is irrevalent to the issue of a specific question on which the vote is based. The vote reference Brexit is very specific to the question of EU membership and its outcome. The intervening period from the vote to now has revealed a host of problems not shown or known at the vote time and will have given us all time to consider more deeply which way to choose – irrespective of general political preference. Democracy means that a further vote is necessary to allow individuals to register their view of the current situation.
Quote “I respect the democratic vote in 2016. I also respect the right of the people in a democracy to change their minds, and to have another democratic vote on the final deal, once we know the facts.”
Typical political ****shit!
Or just something you disagree with, Sammie? After all, several Brexiteers have made exactly the same point and it’s hardly unreasonable to say that people should have the chance to actually know the deal they’re voting on.
I am a man of 88 years lived ok before we went in EU So what is the problem now
This is my story this is my song
we have been in this EU to long
so if you value your Health and not you wealth
lets get out give us some CLOUT
JOE
EX SUEZ VETERAN
Hi Joe – you’re right, we survived in the past but we did it by changing and adapting to the times. The world has moved on since the 1950s and 1960s, and it’s not good enough for Farage and co. to pretend that a 1950s Britain can thrive in the 21st century.