Graham reports back from Friends of Scholes Park meeting
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by Lib Dem Team on 19 October, 2016
Following an accident at the Horse & Farrier junction in Gatley last Monday, here’s an update on the work the Lib Dem team are doing.
We have met with Council officers this week and asked them to look at the options again. We’ve also asked them to look at the accident record at the junction and compare it to others in Stockport and Greater Manchester which may help us make the case for the money needed to make the improvements.
The options we’ve look at include:
Mini-roundabout
There’s not enough space at the junction to have a mini-roundabout.
Traffic lights
It would be possible to put traffic lights around the junction. It’s an expensive option (we think around £200,000).
Make Church Road one-way
We consulted residents on the idea of making Church Road one-way (from the Farrier up to Styal Road) and the overwhelming view was that it would cause more problems than it solved.
Have some sort of raised cushion at or near the junction
This is the best option we’ve come across. It’s still not cheap, but we think we’re more likely to get funding.
Mirror outside the Horse & Farrier
A mirror on the pub itself needs the owner (Hydes) to agree and also needs planning permission. Hydes would be liable if any accident were caused by the mirror.
Here are the Department for Transport rules about putting a mirror on a post on the pavement:
21 CommentsNo council is able to provide permission or erect traffic mirrors on the highway.
A traffic mirror may help those joining a road from a junction with limited visibility, but a traffic mirror placed in the highway is legally classed as an obstruction on the highway. Such mirrors cannot be put up without permission from the Department for Transport. This requires extensive site investigation application information.
Permission is very rarely given. It is reserved only for the very poorest of busy junctions with a significant collision history and generally only on a temporary basis until junction improvements are made.There are two further concerns:
• The sun or lights from a vehicle may shine onto the mirror and reflect into the eyes of an approaching motorist, causing considerable confusion and possibly an accident
• A driver may rely on the mirror, even though it might become obscured, no longer be visible or may not even face in the right direction any more
The Department for Transport stance always prefers to improve visibility at junctions, rather than rely on a traffic mirror. If a mirror is installed without Department for Transport permission and a collision occurs, the installer would be liable to prosecution.Road mirrors
What to do if you want to put up a mirror on a road.
Road mirrors on or next to the public highway are not normally recommended as they can be:
• misleading at night when reflecting headlights
• damaged by vandals or by accident
• affected by glare from sunlight
• sometimes obscured by condensation and dirt
• confusing for non-local motorists
• difficult to site satisfactorily
• misleading due to difficulties of judging speed and distance.Exceptions
In exceptional circumstances,we may be prepared to make an application to the Department for Transport which may authorise the use of a road mirror at a site for a trial period of 12 months
Approval will not be given if we have to bear any of the costs.
Private entrances
• Road mirrors at private entrances cannot be put up on the public highway.
• Any mirrors put up without permission will be removed.
• All such mirrors must be on private land with the approval of the landowner.
• You may need to get planning permission from your local district council.Junctions
The Department for Transport will only authorise road mirrors at junctions or crossroads where both roads are public highways.
• We will only support an application if we consider the mirror will contribute to road safety.
• Authorisation is usually granted initially for a 12 month trial period.
• Permanent authorisation will be based on evidence of how effective the mirror has been as a road safety measure.
Cost
To supply and install a mirror will cost between £500 – £1000.Maintenance
• We will not be responsible for any damage, repair or replacement of mirrors.
• Public Liability Policy must be held by the owner indemnifying the Council for at least £10,000,000 for any incident or any one claim involving the road mirror.
In your quest to find a solution to this tricky Junction can you add to your list the Massie Street to High Street Junction to get sorted. This should be easier to sort as there is signage to prevent cars turning right onto the High Street yet lots of people ignore this.
Hi Ian – Massie Street/High Street is another one that frustrates people. As you say, the legal powers are there – it’s the Police having the resources to enforce it.
Why not suggest to the Police to have CCTV at the Massie street Junction with an enforceable fine for drivers turning right.
It will be a moneyspinner for the Police which I would support.
The junction at the Horse and Farrier is very dangerous, drivers exiting right from Church Road towards Cheadle are left with making a guess on whether or not and at what speed traffic is approaching from the right Cheadle direction. Very often traffic is moving at speed.
The junction is long overdue a full set of traffic signals. I have spoken with Iain about this several times also police officers attending incidents at the junction, though not last Monday’s.
There has been a disgraceful lack of meaningful action by Stockport Council at this location. Money has been wasted on several re-designs, including the installation of a set of pedestrian lights, which do not solve the safety issue. I said so at the time, complaining to Iain. Iain suggested that limited budgets were the problem, but the council, as I state, wasted money on ineffective re-designs.
Unfortunately these decisions seem to be made by people with little or no meaningful driving experience.
A note on the installation of full traffic signals is that it would have to be programmed to take into account high traffic flow at certain times of the day, mainly late afternoons, heading towards Cheadle.
On another issue of danger in Gatley is the one of vehicles parking on the curve of Church Road by Tesco, forcing vehicles heading towards Styal Road into the crown of the road into oncoming vehicles. Parking restrictions should be introduced on Church Road at this point.
Regarding the density of traffic through Gatley, is it expected that this will be reduced with the opening of the Eastern link airport road?
There was a previous suggestion to limit approach speed from Cheadle between the rail bridge & clock to 20mph and along Church Road. In addition an automatic sign before the pedestrian crossing detecting & showing the approach speed. Have these been dismissed? Without action the incident rate will increase – including pedestrian injury!
Hi David – it’s still an option.
Possibly make the junction a left only turning from church road onto Gatley road, turning right is far too dangerous.
I agree wholeheartedly with David Thorton’s comments. We can only presume that the council decision makers don’t live in Gatley!
I can understand an objection to making Church Road one way only but could a no right turn sign opposite the Horse and Farrier be considered. I live off Styal Road and if I want to go to Kingsway junction or Cheadle I have always gone to Park Road traffic lights and turned right there. This surely would be a cheaper option and not inconvenience drivers who wanted to use shops or cafes in Gatley. The bus coming from the airport would have to be diverted.
Re. “Some sort of raised cushion at or near the junction “. From the depths of my infinite lack of knowledge, I agree that this would appear to be a possible solution. I would, however,
suggest that any raised “cushion”, to be effective, needs to be
positioned a sensible distance before the danger area – not at it . Traffic must be slowed down prior to arriving at and also whilst travelling through the junction .
Traffic lights or one way are the only 2 options to make the road safe.
We also need to see more traffic Police on the roads of Stockport enforcing current traffic regulations such as parking on Zig Zag lines (current penalty £100 fine and 3 points on your licence), turning right at Left turn only junctions, going the wrong way up One Way roads, these offences are committed daily in Cheadle and surrounding area, we should push the Police authority to enforce the rules and start to get value for the tax payers of Stockport, we all pay for Policing its not Free.
1. Making church road ‘left turn only’ at the clock will just lead to another Massie street situation.
2. If the traffic lights were moved to the other side of the horse & farrier, people will come round that blind bend & then just come to a standstill in front of people coming out of Church Road, blocking the exit.
3. The mirror could cause more accidents if it gets dislodged or dirty & make the pub liable.
4. Making Church Road one way from Gatley Road to Styal Road would stop the people using the side roads as race tracks in an attempt to jump a few cars to exit at the train station, but it would probably mean more accidents at the Park Road junction & there’s already too many there as it is.
Personally, I think the best option is a large raised area outside the post office to just before the pedestrian lights which would significantly slow down cars coming round that corner giving people exiting Church Road a safer exit.
Jane
Speed humps do not deter company car drivers from speeding
Speed humps damage vehicle suspensions leading to increased braking distances
Speed humps create problems for ambulances on emergencies with or without a patient on board
Speed humps cause vibrations leading to property damage
Please no more counterproductive speed humps, traffic lights are the ideal solution
Roy, I take your points on board but I do think that I’d the lights were moved, people would just block the Church Rd exit if the lights are on red.
Maybe I’ve just been lucky, but I’ve used that junction daily for years & never had a problem.
Inconsiderate drivers oppose speed bumps because they actually work.
It’s easy : Speed bump – slow down – no damage to car, property and hopefully pedestrians or other road users.
I never use that junction. I go to Park Road traffic lights and turn right there. Inevitably I meet a traffic crawl on Gatley Road but at least I don’t risk taking my life in my hands. I am therefore in theory regarding that junction as no right turn.
Could the existing pedestrian crossing lights be altered to normal traffic lights and the keep clear signs on the road outside the Horse and Farrier be extended. This would allow a few more cars to turn right from Church Road.
Considering all options I believe there should be raised yellow line for 50 yards yards each side of junction with earning signs “dangerous junction”. Think thst is all that is needed. Maybe 10k would sort it.
Most of the above comments are sensible and a combination of one or more would help depending on budget/will. A couple of extra thoughts:
1) Turning left from Gatley Road into Church Road, the junction is heavily flared i.e. a wide sweeping corner that motorists can take at speed. Many drivers barely slow down for this corner.
If the pavement was widened and the junction narrowed to be closer to a right-angle, anyone turning left would need to slow for the corner. It would have the added benefit of making it easier for pedestrians to cross that road (less distance to cross and slower-moving traffic). It should help right-turning traffic from Church Rd as traffic would be slower. Ideally there would be a zebra crossing across Church Lane too.
2) Not short-term, but sharing anyway: in a perfect world I’d want Gatley as a place to go to not a through-road with a few shops on the way. So the perfect goal for me would be to pedestrianise Church Road. Next best – a small barrier halfway along; ‘filtered permeability’, so it is accessible to motor vehicles but not as a through road. After that, the suggested one-way option. And alongside – ways to enforce the 20mph limit as this seems to be widely ignored.
I think all of these options would improve the village and benefit local business. Move away some of the (fast-moving) traffic that doesn’t need to be there and create somewhere my young son can grow up to walk/cycle around and not just continually put into a car for his safety and adding further to the traffic.
Please consider the traffic light option – it may be expensive but it will be safest in the long term, not only for cars but pedestrians, too
I believe that the traffic light option would be a mistake. As well as being an expensive option, it would encourage more vehicles to use Church Road. Like some of the people above, I avoid Church Road and use the Park Road junction to turn right even though my journey is slightly longer and I probably end up further behind in queue of traffic going through Gatley towards the A34. If traffic lights were installed as suggested, there would be no incentive to use the Park Road junction, thus leading to much more traffic and pollution on Church Road. This would also increase the likelihood of pedestrian accidents along Church Road as people try to cross through a load of queuing traffic. I imagine that more people would try and use the Oakwood Avenue cut through too, causing further problems at its junction with the A560 near the station.
We should be trying to make the centre of Gatley a cleaner, greener and attractive place to be, not a place that is going to be constantly clogged with traffic or with drivers racing through residential streets to save themselves a few car lengths of traffic.
Like others, I won’t turn right from Church Road and use the Park Road option. Yes, it’s longer and you join the crawl sooner – but it is safer. Traffic lights are the only solution that would convince me it was safe enough to use Church Road.